explanation Options

[detoren]

Can you guys sent me a link where i can read how this rating works ? cos a did see on a game that a player was ranked 22 played 23.6 did get 0.00 points
the player on second place had rank 21 played 20 and did get 0.06 ? is there a rule or a way to see where rank is based on that explain this ?

[ETc|Jay]

i only know this wiki here http://wiki.splatterladder.com/Rating/en

[detoren]

yep i did read but than that score isnt possible :).

[TomDome]

Its kinda easy:

play against higher rated or equal rated players and be better as them and you gain a plus,
play against lower rated players means you have to earn way more ppm than your opponents to gain a plus.

The higher rated your opponents are in relation to your own rate, the easier it is to gain a plus.


That info has to be enough for you.

[detoren]

well thats a nice answer but its kinda treu :). Its just not that easy it looks there is a extra handicap for higher rated players (i dont ask this for me cos i cant okay that high rates i was just curious cos there are so often points given to ppl that i cant explant . and as it seems you cant just globaly explain :). is it a secret how you give points ? cos there just has to be a formula somewhere its not that ppl can abuse that somehow ?


like the nr 2 and 3 on this list :) 1 is 22 and play lots above himself (and the rest ) and get 0
nr 3 play lots less than his own rate so he played bad for his rate and get good rate 0.07
http://et.splatterladder.com/?mod=sessioni...p;idx=157329582

This post has been edited by detoren: Jan 7 2010, 12:28 PM

[$mart]

there just has to be a formula somewhere

I agree, where is the formula please ?

Thanks in advance

[Flocky]

The formula is based on ELO rating system but it has been modified from that.

[detoren]

this explains how hard it is for higher players they fight negative grades :).

[testforecho]

this explains how hard it is for higher players they fight negative grades :).

Actually sl rating is veeery far from the elo formula imho. And anyway real elo should be for 1vs1 things, like chess, etc. or when you count a whole team (clanwars, for example). Certainly not for a game where many players don't even meet each other (etpro vs other mods...) and where you can change name like you change your underwear.

If you wanna know how sl works, just look at the sl wiki, and that's the base thing. Of course the real one is a bit different, I think they don't calculate the avg rating just making an average, in fact it doesn't match, it's usually higher than real avg. I have tried a bit to 'reverse engineer' the algorithm from the scores in the 'Damn, I'm good!' thing in homepage, but I get a higher expected rating...

Anyway, they made this 'elo-based' system to solve the problem of 'noob-bashing'?

Result?

Still top rated players play only in jaymod, etc., still only in servers with beginners (that could have been solved with a different system), and still only in the winning team (because of the silly idea of sl to put axis and allies in the same pot), they still rename when they feel they cannot get a plus (read: when they are in the losing team and/or they are sucking, or when someone good has a low rating).
So nothing has changed from the 'old' rating, the only additional thing is that you have to look at some ratings/sessions before joining, to see if there is any chance that you'll get a minus. So a little bit of extra mental effort for the rest it's still noob-bashing.
With some added brains/experience to feel the right session to play with the 'rating name', nay that's the chief part of the thing imho.

But changing it in 2010 makes no sense anymore. They had the opportunity to make it better in the past, and they missed it.

[Guest_mthD_*]

http://forum.splatterladder.com/index.php?showtopic=11700

This discussion is so old and always ppl. make new topics about this. Just accept, that the rating is nothing to play for. I always laugh about new clans that come out of nowhere day by day and that "play for rating".

- The rating on SL sais NOTHING about skills, the rating should not be a goal of ppl. playing this game.
- The rating is bugged, not fair (XP whore et cetera) and it does not reflect if some1 is a "noob" or a "pro".

Best are ppl. calling themself "med skilled" because they are at top 10 of SL, rofl! Even when you make ure rating with FRAGS on some random 2.55 Jaymod-Server with stats like 160-20 ure NOT med-skilled. Some servers are so extreme bad setted up, that you make headshots even when you aim 3m away from the head (tuned hitboxes). So easy to make XP and frags there.

The only way to make the rating on SL be a bit more fair is to make different toplists for every mod and gameversion. At least all the 2.55/2.60b Jaymod and NQ " oh yea 3 HS/kill" guys are filterd out of the guys which play etpro. But even than its no list to say something about the skills, because making 16+ ppm on etpro publics like GMC is no magic when they save the XP for 1 campaign. Also i think its a lot work for the SL-guys and i dont think they will do it, dunno if its even possible.

See SL as a very nice service to look for servers, maps, buddys et cetera and thank them for all the work they do for you in their free time. But you should stop annoying them with ure "omg the rating" thingy depp.gif

cheers

PS: Before some ppl. start talking like "just because you dont get high rated" blabla. I have been top rated more often than the most of you. But i dont care about it anymore.

[TomDome]

See SL as a very nice service to look for servers, maps, buddys et cetera and thank them for all the work they do for you in their free time. But you should stop annoying them with ure "omg the rating" thingy depp.gif

And again: all said in a kinda polite way

[testforecho]

http://forum.splatterladder.com/index.php?showtopic=11700

This discussion is so old and always ppl. make new topics about this. Just accept, that the rating is nothing to play for. I always laugh about new clans that come out of nowhere day by day and that "play for rating".

- The rating on SL sais NOTHING about skills, the rating should not be a goal of ppl. playing this game.
- The rating is bugged, not fair (XP whore et cetera) and it does not reflect if some1 is a "noob" or a "pro".
[cut]

I agree that the rating is bugged and probably not worth playing for, but imho it takes nonetheless some form of skill, probably I could get to 20, maybe 21, but not 23. Meanwhile, playing jaymod has made my etpro skill sink even lower than the low/low+ I had.

But I won't say that 'who plays for rating is noob', in the 1st page of sl ladder you find every kind of players: lows who suck in 1on1 but they make rating I don't know how, probably some wallhackers too (that's just a guess), but some of them are not so bad imho, at least in that laggy/unhittable environment where they play.
Any kind of ladder has ppl who are better than the others in doing that thing the ladder is about, here we talk about being decent noob-bashers, and players who know when to rename. But still it's a kind of skill. I don't know how they would do in a clanwar, but they don't care so...

By the way, I think that on etpro (although its hit detection is far from being perfect) you win if you have a higher acc. on jaymod and noquarter who warps more wins, all else being equal. I don't think it's so easy as you said to make hs, I find it easier on etpro, especially since on jaymod servers you see a lot of ppl warping around with 30 maxpackets and such sh*t.

I know it sux and all, but recently I wanted to try this rating thing, and I found out how bugged it was. What I don't understand is the reason why they won't explain their algorithm, or sentences like: 'if you don't like it, then make a website of your own'. Or 'you say that because you can't get a 23'. That's just bringing the topic to other matters, but I understand that if they changed it, all top rated players would whine badly, so that's one of the reason for which they don't do it.

Until I get rid of this new addiction I will just try and play like those players do, maybe I will get past 20-21 like this ;). Noob renaming, and playing always in the winning team.

I was just curious to know exactly how it was calculated, that's all.

[TomDome]

I was just curious to know exactly how it was calculated, that's all.

And you wont get that info no mather how often this question is asked. The rating is (as said aprox. 50 times withing uncounted threads throughout the forum) based on ELO. Its not ELO itself, just based on it with the sl´s own variation of calculation. And every discussion about doing a better calculation or splitting the protocols, mods or whatever will (sorry to say that) have no effect on the actual calculation algorithm. There is not the time to change it in that substantiell ways, nor the need for it atm imo. We have discussed splittings or changes internally more then once and atm it is just as it is and i will not say it will change in the future nor will i say it wont change.

The sl started as a buddytracking and servertracking project which is still the basic of it. The rating algorithms have been changed in the past when there was time and need to do it and it might or might not change in the future as well. And everyone who runs an own coded project will know why "all the magic" isnt revealed only because some people would like to know how exactly it works.

[testforecho]

I was just curious to know exactly how it was calculated, that's all.

And you wont get that info no mather how often this question is asked. The rating is (as said aprox. 50 times withing uncounted threads throughout the forum) based on ELO. Its not ELO itself, just based on it with the sl´s own variation of calculation. And every discussion about doing a better calculation or splitting the protocols, mods or whatever will (sorry to say that) have no effect on the actual calculation algorithm. There is not the time to change it in that substantiell ways, nor the need for it atm imo. We have discussed splittings or changes internally more then once and atm it is just as it is and i will not say it will change in the future nor will i say it wont change.

The sl started as a buddytracking and servertracking project which is still the basic of it. The rating algorithms have been changed in the past when there was time and need to do it and it might or might not change in the future as well. And everyone who runs an own coded project will know why "all the magic" isnt revealed only because some people would like to know how exactly it works.

Come on, no need to get angry, mine was mere curiosity. Anyway knowing how sl rating works (and possibly I could figure out myself since I'm not totally dumb after 20+years of coding) is not something I would kill for. Maybe if it was such a masterpiece... ;)

I would have made it differently, but hey, I'm not going to tell people what to do, I'm sorry if you took my post as a personal attack, talking too much is still one of my weak points, so I'd better close it here, after all everyone has told what he had to tell here.

peace

[Guest_mthD_*]

But I won't say that 'who plays for rating is noob

I would not say also. Some are, some not. I personally would say for example that elektrolux aka do7en is no noob. Dunno how he does on etpro - i just know that he is better than the average for top listed players. Some1 told me he went etpro totally now =)

By the way, I think that on etpro (although its hit detection is far from being perfect) you win if you have a higher acc.

ACC is the win ofc in the mostsituations, even when you make more bodyshots as headshots. But my definition of skill is not only aim based, its more about gamesense, tactiks, teamplay overall -> BRAIN

on jaymod and noquarter who warps more wins, all else being equal. I don't think it's so easy as you said to make hs, I find it easier on etpro, especially since on jaymod servers you see a lot of ppl warping around with 30 maxpackets and such sh*t.

i have a much much higher ACC and more headshots on Jaymod/NQ as on etpro. Jaymod-Server yesterday (tgs)



i dont say that its good, b4 ppl. start to argue. But imo its much harder on etpro because of the different, smaller hitboxes and overall better movement of the most of ure ennemys.

I know it sux and all, but recently I wanted to try this rating thing, and I found out how bugged it was. What I don't understand is the reason why they won't explain their algorithm, or sentences like: 'if you don't like it, then make a website of your own'. Or 'you say that because you can't get a 23'. That's just bringing the topic to other matters, but I understand that if they changed it, all top rated players would whine badly, so that's one of the reason for which they don't do it.

maybe they dont say it because ppl. will start to cheat the ratingsystem even more when they know the real algorithm.

Until I get rid of this new addiction I will just try and play like those players do, maybe I will get past 20-21 like this ;). Noob renaming, and playing always in the winning team.

dont do it =) play for fun, maybe for good frags or for ure team. But to look always on ure rating like "omg xy is better and plays with a fakenick, damn got to change my name because i will get minus" is no fun imo.

cheers