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TomDome
In this thread you have the chance to take part in a decission about enabling rating for non anticheat protected servers.
But you are not only asked if you want non protected servers ranted, but also how this could be done.
We dont talk about alternative rating methods but xp elo based rating with various settings or the same settings as for anticheat protected servers.
There is no decission yet if we add rating for non protected servers or not, and so is the decission how we will change the method of calculation or not.
This is the part where we ask you, the users of splatterladder, what you want or not want to have.


In diesem Thread habt Ihr die Chance an einer Diskussion teilzunehmen, die darüber entscheiden soll, ob Server ohne Anticheat Lösung gerated werden.
Es geht aber nicht nur darum zu entscheiden ob ungeschützte Server gerated werden sollen, sondern auch wie das aussehen wird.
Wir sprechen hierbei nicht über alternative Wege, es bleibt beil elo basierten XP rating, wobei alternative Einstellungen, oder eben diegleichen als bei geschützten Servern zum Einsatz kommen werden.
Es gibt noch keine Entscheidung ob Rating für ungeschützte Server aktiviert wird, oder nicht. Genausewenig ob diese gleich oder anders gerated werden.
Das ist der Teil, wo wir Euch fragen, die User der Splatterladder, was Ihr wollt oder nicht wollt.
StoerFaktoR
Meine Meinung dazu ist ein ganz klares NEIN für ungeschützte Server.
Es wäre unfair den Spielern gegenüber die sich hauptsächlich auf geschützten Servern
aufhalten um jeglichen Betrügereien aus dem Weg zu gehen.
Abgesehen davon ob PB & TCAC nun richtig funktionieren oder nicht.
Zumal es recht schwer werden dürfte Cheatserver NICHT in die Wertung mit einzubeziehen .Denn wer weiss
denn schon so genau auf welchen ,ungeschützten Server, das Cheaten erlaubt ist ,wenn man
ihn selber nie besucht hat.
Nicht alle Cheatserver schreiben sich als Aimbot oder Allbots Server aus...

Wie gesagt das ist nur meine Meinung.
daredevil
Voted for 1:1 rating.

Why? I would enable PB if their would be active support for it but if their is no support how can I enable it?

Their is always a trade off and I believe giving hard time to newbies is not a good idea. May be one day with ET:Legacy, someone will add anti cheat support for it. All I can do is hope :)
ischbinz
i m playing on nq 1.2.9 servers -
this nq version got trouble with pb. so pb is disabled on this servers...
maybe next nq version can enable it again
but for now it don t work - so i vote for enable it
(hax servers should be banned from sl...)
but thats another problem

just my 2 cents
T.C.MAFIA
ich würde es gern wollen dass die geratet wird weil tzac pb kann man auch nicht trauen lieber vetrau ich admins die auf dem servers sind

und ich würde mich auch freuen wieder mal mit spladderladder mitzuarbeiten.

na klar ist echt schlimm mit den ganzen cheaters aber schwarze schafe gibst es überall mit pb oder ohne pb .

ich glaub das wir mit et nie richtig die cheaters auslöschen können weil auch der spiel richtig alt geworden ist .

wir müssen schauen das et weiterlebt und der spiel auch weiter aktuell bleibt

zuerst pb geht weg dann etkey probleme dann masterservers probleme so wird der spiel kaputt gehen

vetraut mal die admins im server und probiert es ohne pb zu raten das wäre mein vorschlag allein das et nicht austirbt und neue server auch die chance kriegen voll zu werden .

denkt an die menge ich hätte auch kein bock in einem neuen server zu spielen 4 vs 4 aber mit pb ))))

bis dann ich hoffe ihr entscheidet das richtige und ich glaube dass ihr das richtige lösung findet

bis dann. TC MAFIA 62.75.222.16:27960 ETc|Clan,XPSave,ETPubII,T.C.Fun



Dragon!
QUOTE (ischbinz @ May 6 2012, 09:34 PM) *
this nq version got trouble with pb. so pb is disabled on this servers...
maybe next nq version can enable it again

As Irata said, NQ 1.3.0 won't support PB at all.
slim43
QUOTE (daredevil @ May 6 2012, 02:42 PM) *
Voted for 1:1 rating.

Why? I would enable PB if their would be active support for it but if their is no support how can I enable it?

Their is always a trade off and I believe giving hard time to newbies is not a good idea. May be one day with ET:Legacy, someone will add anti cheat support for it. All I can do is hope :)



i agree with daredevil i hav just disabled pb on my servers its not working properly and we are losing players because of its non functions sadd.gif
StoerFaktoR
ZITAT
i m playing on nq 1.2.9 servers -this nq version got trouble with pb


We´ve no trouble with PB and NQ1.2.9.
Our server is running fine with PB.Can you explain what kind of trouble are meant?
Rippchen
und nochmal mein vorschlag.

wenn server ohne cheat protection geranked werden, sollte man den usern die möglichkeit geben, die rangliste über filter zu sortieren, ähnlich wie bei der serverliste.
da kann man sich dann den mod, cheat protection ja/nein, ff on/off aussuchen und die rangliste anzeigen.

grundsätztlich verneine ich aber das ranking für ungeschützte server, genauso wenn das friendly fire deaktiviert ist, diese server würde ich persönlich nicht ranken (steht aber jetzt nicht zur diskussion).
da ET aber auf dem absteigenden ast ist und der community und dem spiel zuliebe sage ich ja zum ranken ohne cheat schutz.
*Sch3cki*
Würde mich Rippchen anschliesen !!

Das wäre ein guter Kompromiss !!



Fleisch hat immer Recht ;) grin.gif
onkelb0b
Ich teile auch die Meinung von Rippchen.
Gute Idee und gut für ET.

cheers.gif

T.C.MAFIA
gute idee rippchen

und ich hoffe dass endlich mal ein pb gibt wo keine probleme gibt das wäre echt der hammer ))

die servers die gelistet werden würde ich die admins auch testen vielleicht ein register program in sl seite für die admins die servers haben

damit falls probleme gibt gleich beheben können .

so würde sl auch alle gut kontrollieren und schwarze schafe gleich raus .

viel spass an alle ET player
{AR}boogie666
ZITAT(Rippchen @ May 7 2012, 02:49 PM) *
da ET aber auf dem absteigenden ast ist und der community und dem spiel zuliebe sage ich ja zum ranken ohne cheat schutz.


schade dass es soweit kommen musste bash.gif wie auch immer .. gl was auch immer entschieden wird ^^

habe fürs dritte gestimmt .)


edit: ach ja .. ich weiss nicht was ein anderes rating system (seperates rating-system) für ungeschützte server bewirken soll? was sagt das aus? finde ich nicht so sinnvoll -- zuviel arbeit für heisse luft // meine meinung
[DooC]*Gauki
ich bin dafür das die server auch ohne pb gewertet werden, da unser server bis jetzt mit pb war und die neuen das mit dem key einfach nicht hinbekommen sadd.gif alleine für ET sollte man die server auch so ranken, da mittlerweile 80 % der server sowieso schon ohne pb sind ! :) thx für eure arbeit bei sl. ]]]
Wolf Enstein
QUOTE (daredevil @ May 6 2012, 04:42 PM) *
Voted for 1:1 rating.

Why? I would enable PB if their would be active support for it but if their is no support how can I enable it?

Their is always a trade off and I believe giving hard time to newbies is not a good idea. May be one day with ET:Legacy, someone will add anti cheat support for it. All I can do is hope :)



I agree with Daredevil on this one. We never asked Punkbuster to switch off their support, they are the ones who stabbed us in the back. Even if they decided to re-continue WolfET support in the future it will never be installed on our server again.
Ruben0s
I voted yes. I'm running a server without anticheats for several years, but I don't really care if ratings get enabled.
{WeB}*DoG*
I have to agree with my Clan brother Gangsta for nearly 10 years we have been flying the flag for Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. spanking.gif spanking.gif To that end we have run servers that have always tried to eliminate the more unsavory aspects of gaming. bash.gif Over the years we have done our utmost to outlaw tweaks that lead to an uneven playing field, only to be shafted by Punkbuster when they arbitrarily decided to dump ET. depp.gif I personally would not be happy ever using PB again, if some other way of policing it became available i would be all for it. motz.gif As it now stands all we can hope is that we can maintain our server in such a way that makes the game fun for all and not the more devious player who is happy to play with various cheats enabled... hammer.gif LONG LIVE ET cheers.gif cheers.gif
b0bby
I think every server should be rated equally.
I don't think it's the players (nor the servers) fault that it ain't punkbuster protected anymore.
The main goal of ET is of course to have fun but it's always nice when you see how good you're doing compared to the other players.
I think you are most afraid of the rating being fucked up by cheaters, but on {WeB} we take care of cheaters ourselves and i think most clans do.
So i don't see the problem in all the servers being rated equally.

respect.gif respect.gif
Psycho ][ Bird
Ich wäre für das Rating von Servern ohne Anticheat-Engine.

Hierbei wäre wie bei der Clan-Protokollierung der Gameserver die sl_ Setting sehr hilfreich, um ggf. den Administratoren die Wahl selbst zu überlassen, ob auf einem etwaigen Server das Rating aktiv/deaktiviert sein soll. Erhoffen könnte man dadurch das ggf. diverse Server auf denen etwaige Tools, aktiv; erlaubt sind, dem Rating fernbleiben, nebst einiger inaktiver Gameserver. Ersteres, sofern der Server-Administrator dem Rest der Community fair gegenübertreten kann.

Momentan führe ich selbst wieder bzw noch immer 3 ET Server, auf denen ich wohl oder übel PunkBuster deaktiviert habe, da es mir Benutzerunfreundlich erscheint, Neulinge oder aber Unwissende noch auf diversen Seiten oder aber Programme hinweisen zu müssen, um ohne weitere Komplikationen den Servern joinen zu können. Alá Etkey. Schade drum, da es stetig ein muss war, die zickige Anticheat-Engine zu nutzen, da PB nun den Dienst eingestellt hat, sollte man den Spieler das Rating auf ungeschützen Servern daher nicht verwehren, denn die Server ohne solcher Engine häufen sich regelrecht.

mfG
kariboe
I agree with my fellow clanmembers cheers.gif , plus, I don't really care about rating. It would be nice though to have a rating, so I voted the 1:1 rating. grin.gif
shadowwolf
also ich bin dagegen .
ok pb mag zwar den support gestopt haben aber es wird immer leute geben die meinen sie müssen cheaten.
und mal ganz erlich die betrügen sich dan doch selbst. Ihr könnt mich gerne 1000 mal killen und ich kille euch nur einmal na und dan ban ich happy,
mann kan gerne das beste anti cheat toll efinden selbst das wird immer und immer wieder schwachstellen haben .
kein anti cheat toll wir perfect sein na und wenn man nunn aber da rating für solche server aktiviert könne man es auch gleich für servers mit bot drauf machen ,da kommt für mich irgent wo das gleiche raus.
das mag nur meine meinug sein aber die sthet disbezogen fest .
ausedem gibt es ja auch noch mods die ihren eigene key haben,stellt man halt die anticheat software anderes ein und scho werden leute nicht mehr ,gekcik wegen empty cd key,
trosdem ist der server dan immer noch etwas sicherer da cheat protectiuon an ist

mfg =waff=shadowwolf
100zherBG
Different rating is a very complicated for implementation. For example ETpro according to Jaymod with double jump and NoQuarter with different weapons isn't an equal games. My idea is a global rating only for ETpro clan servers (as it at this time) and local server rating for other servers...

EDIT: In the players page turn on local rating for all servers and create this tab ("Server Activities") main. "Player Info" my be renamed to "Map Activities" and moved to last position.
CSL
[I think its a double edged sword. Without PB things become subjective because we all have a different view of alternate cheat protection. For example Silent mod has built in cheat protection(dont ask me how it works because I have no idea) so I have no problem enabling rating on Silent servers. As far as the rest of the modsit would depend on whos running the servers and understanding thier level of commitment to preventing cheating. Bottom line you folks at SL have to come up with a definitive definition of "alternate cheat protection" and enable rating on servers that you feel will stand by it.
Jecoliah
Why does SL exist? To rate Sessions. Eventually No servers will have PB enabled and then what? SL will have no sessions to rate!

I manage the Bunker #1 Server and had to disable PB because of constant problems with PB. We Hate cheaters but PB is now Useless!
We take care of Cheaters Ourselves!



Jec
Wolf Enstein
QUOTE (Jecoliah @ May 24 2012, 01:57 AM) *
Why does SL exist? To rate Sessions.

Jec



Splatterladder does a hell of a lot more than just rate sessions, Jec. Thanks to SL we have SL.gamelauncher, favourite server lists, buddylists, a ton of information about maps, mods and problem solving. Not to mention the great community we have here, all thanks to Splatterladder. Your comment is a bit narrow-minded, to say the least.
Jecoliah
QUOTE ({WeB}GANG$TA @ May 23 2012, 07:08 PM) *
QUOTE (Jecoliah @ May 24 2012, 01:57 AM) *
Why does SL exist? To rate Sessions.

Jec



Splatterladder does a hell of a lot more than just rate sessions, Jec. Thanks to SL we have SL.gamelauncher, favourite server lists, buddylists, a ton of information about maps, mods and problem solving. Not to mention the great community we have here, all thanks to Splatterladder. Your comment is a bit narrow-minded, to say the least.


Trust me, I have used SL resources extensively over all the years that I have Mapped, Played and Managed a Server. I am simply saying that SL will not be Rating Sessions "at all" very soon if they don't make this change. More and More servers are not using PB. Its a simple Fact! If SL wishes to exist without rating games then that is fine, all the rest of the SL resources are still appreciated, However SL will not be what it was and what it was originally meant to be. I think you guys are Wise enough to already know this hence this Poll.



Jec
Wolf Enstein
QUOTE (Jecoliah @ May 24 2012, 03:43 AM) *
Trust me, I have used SL resources extensively over all the years that I have Mapped, Played and Managed a Server. I am simply saying that SL will not be Rating Sessions "at all" very soon if they don't make this change. More and More servers are not using PB. Its a simple Fact! If SL wishes to exist without rating games then that is fine, all the rest of the SL resources are still appreciated, However SL will not be what it was and what it was originally meant to be. I think you guys are Wise enough to already know this hence this Poll.


Jec


I can't argue with that, Jec, you made some good points there. That's the main reason our Clan members voted for the 1:1 rating to be enabled on all servers, with our without anti-cheat protection. Thanks for clarifying what you meant.
ETc|Jay
i voted for enabled rating for non punkbuster servers, because our clan stopped using punkbuster since evenbalance said they will not do any future updates. i dont care for this rating stuff, but some members asked me to post it here :)
ETc|Jay
ZITAT(StoerFaktoR @ May 6 2012, 04:29 PM) *
Meine Meinung dazu ist ein ganz klares NEIN für ungeschützte Server.
Es wäre unfair den Spielern gegenüber die sich hauptsächlich auf geschützten Servern
aufhalten um jeglichen Betrügereien aus dem Weg zu gehen.
Abgesehen davon ob PB & TCAC nun richtig funktionieren oder nicht.
Zumal es recht schwer werden dürfte Cheatserver NICHT in die Wertung mit einzubeziehen .Denn wer weiss
denn schon so genau auf welchen ,ungeschützten Server, das Cheaten erlaubt ist ,wenn man
ihn selber nie besucht hat.
Nicht alle Cheatserver schreiben sich als Aimbot oder Allbots Server aus...

Wie gesagt das ist nur meine Meinung.



Aber wer kann auf pb enabled Servern den nicht cheaten? Die Cheats sind doch bestimmt schon wieder alle neu programmiert das die das aller letze Update von pb aushebeln. Punkbuster ist nur ein Ram-Fresser. Und gibt nicht mal mehr nen etkey automatisch. Was spricht da noch für Punkbuster...
$mart
I've initially voted NO, but please turn it to YES because :

If cheaters can get rating, why not.
But the 5O top list will have to be studied by players, like registered SL users. When a doubt exist on one player in the top50, we just have to go on the server, play , spec, etc ... and give our feeling about yes or not this guy cheat. It would be like a VOTE on this forum with a link of the player to follow him.

So I finally vote YES, because ranks below TOP50 are not important, we will just have to be watch ranks above TOP50. Easy way, no algorithm depending on so multiple parameters that it will be always false and complained about the algorithm. Just take a coffee, spec the guy, and vote on SL if cheat yes/no.

V55 & Happy Birthday ET (I wait for the 10th) xDDD
Hellfiger
Hi,
I'm cTRL-exeve.
I've been playing this game for years and years now.
Because of Splatterladder it made me play this came for so long.
BUT then came Trackbase.net.... For me you guys have to compete with them. And they are doing a much more better job.
Why?
For starter, they let you rate on non-protected servers. You guys base yourself on an outdated anti-cheat program that dropped ET like it was a germ.
You guys are loosing visitors and members because you REFUSE to activate rate on those kind of servers.
They also have another kind of rate system. Yours is based pure on xp. No skill in cvopsing 30 suits/map. getting huge much xp => alot of rate as well. While real skilled people try to get rate pure on kills (but I guess this will be getting in discussing which is 'the best' way to rate).

Of course you'll have to look carefull which server is full of cheaters, and which aren't.
You can easily excluded those server from your tracking list.

To make it short: If you don't activate rate on all kind of servers (or just not those with server password protection, since those are common used to play a war (scrim)), you guys will fall behind even further from trackbase, and you will lose even more members, credibility and activity.
You have to admit, that your community is getting smaller since Trackbase came out...

Anyway: I know you won't like what i just said here. But it is the truth.


GL with this site.
schnoog
QUOTE
While real skilled people try to get rate pure on kills

At this point we differ. This is ET, not CS. Its not a pure FPS, it`s about completing an objective and much more.
Therefore I don`t see the benefit of rewarding pure killers instead of the, IMO, better solution the XP system offers.

But we`re working, based on the SL user votes, on a solution to enable rating for non protected server, but not a 1:1 rating compared to AC protected server.

QUOTE
You guys are loosing visitors and members because you REFUSE to activate rate on those kind of servers.

Our visitor count is increasing since months (+22% compared to december 11, +13% compared to january 12).
>30 % of the votes declined a rating for non protected server (just for your information).

Thanks for your feedback, it`s allways welcome

Kind regards
Schnoog
{WeB}*DoG*
Trackbase whilst new is not so hot on their responses 5 months ago we requested that our server be added to their list of servers and to this date we have had no response... Trackbase may have an updated look but Splatterladder is the father of et tracking and it has always striven to eliminate cheats... i can completely understand why they are taking a considered view on allowing non pb servers to be tracked. we all agree that PB has shafted the longterm et player but in its absence you have to be careful who is rated cos there are still plenty of cheats out there.. As a server admin for our own clan we try our utmost to eliminate anyone found using cheats or hacks If we police our servers then maybe further down the line we will be allowed to get a rating but quite frankly the rating is not why i or most of my clanmates play. motz.gif

The only mandate we make for anyone coming on our server is that you must TK Gang$ta often abuse him at any opportunity.... grin.gif grin.gif grin.gif grin.gif grin.gif grin.gif 01lol.gif
TomDome
Right Dog bro, but you forgot to point out that stabbing Gang$ta from behind is all he needs in game rolleye.gif

back to topic:
We will announce a news about the decission we came to. Maybe tomorrow, maybe on friday. Then all interested will know what we do.
Wolf Enstein
QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
BUT then came Trackbase.net.... For me you guys have to compete with them.


Why? Splatterladder has nothing to prove to anyone when it comes to it's record in providing an excellent service to all Wolf:ET players. SL has been here since the start of Wolf:ET and is one of the main websites that can claim credit for the growth and development of our game, along with other websites such as Wolffiles and Splash Damage.

QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
And they are doing a much more better job.
Why?
For starter, they let you rate on non-protected servers.


And what exactly do you think this thread is all about, Hellfiger? Splatterladder implementing the same type of rating, perhaps?

QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
You guys are loosing visitors and members because you REFUSE to activate rate on those kind of servers.
.

Refuse? Once again, Hellfiger, what part of "Rating for non anticheat protected servers" can't you grasp? The clue is in the title of this thread. And as for losing visitors, Schnoog just shot down that myth in his reply to you. The vetran players of Wolf:ET are, quite frankly, sick and tired of all this "Splatterladder is dead" crap. It's a lie based on the wishful thinking of a sad, bigotted minority who have the IQ of a house brick.

QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
They also have another kind of rate system.


That'll be the same rating system that went "tits-up" as soon as the implemented it, right? Like DOG said in his post, we're still waiting for a reply on that subject.


QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
While real skilled people try to get rate pure on kills........


No. Rambo Medic scumbags try to obtain a rating in that manner and in doing so drive many new players away from our game. They have no sense of teamplay, objectives and are nothing more than selfish stat-whores at best.


QUOTE (Hellfiger @ Jun 6 2012, 01:32 PM) *
you will lose even more members, credibility and activity.You have to admit, that your community is getting smaller since Trackbase came out...


Credibility is something that Splatterladder has by the "truck load", proving itself to be one of the top Wolfenstein Enemy Territory websites ever created and doing so year after year. As far as I'm concerned you just posted your comment to start trouble between SL and Trackbase members, Hellfiger. Did you even vote in the poll? I doubt it. I like Trackbase, my Clan are members there too and guys like Shagileo are top class and great fun to frag with.

Anyway: I know you won't like what i just said here, Hellfiger. But it is the truth.


GL with your wrong opinion.

TomDome
Hey G-Man bro,

thanks for a load of credit to sl. We will announce within 1 or 2 days i guess what we do with non protected servers.

The alternative rating method Paul implemented is a good try to get away from the xp base - but this is all what the server is sending - thats how ET was created.
Connecting a client every 5 seconds to a server (only if Paul approves the server to be allowed to use this method, what means also a long map playtime or the session wont be rated) to query some data isnt a way i would favourite but thats in every serveradmins own decission what he or she prefers.
XP based rating can always be tricked by earning huge xp amounts. To cap this we use a max session value, if you earn more xp - you are not rated. Paul copied this and just added a higher value max, what is the reason you can rate higher on tb than on sl. You could set this value max always a bit higher, but what is the result? Imo the result is that you can trick more with a higher max value, because you get rated a longer time before the cap cuts you out.

But this thread shall not become a thread about i like this more or i like that more. Its a thread where the users of splatterladder can take a voice about enabling rating or not.

Thanks for reading.
kariboe
I have only one thing to say:

SL is better than trackbase.


That's all ditsch.gif
[DooC]*Gauki
i use both, sl. and tb. :) splatterladder is the reason why i playing this game so long :P in my opinion i think sl. is better couse of the server history and the xp based rating ! and tb. is better couze of rating on non pb server rating :P but i dont play 4 rating at the moment grin.gif i prefer to watch whats happen on server and how long someone play rolleye.gif
keep you work up, i will stay on sl. anyway :P haha

<---- edit1: my member number in sl.tells all :P
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